Lydia Laws

So I booked a one way ticket to Ibiza. This was like the summer 2013, with a friend, and we were like, "yep, we're going to do it. We'll find work once we're there. It'll be fine." Then I applied for this internship and actually got it. It was a writing internship, so writing reviews of different events and interviewing DJs.

 

It was basically a dream job for someone who is massively into their music and wants to spend the summer in Ibiza. I went to Ibiza and did that for six months and that was the total kind of game changer. I'd never set foot in Ibiza before. I was probably a little bit late to the scene in comparison to a lot of my friends because I'd just been very much an Indie Kid and it just took me a bit longer to find that sound really. It was the first time I went where I was committing to a whole summer.

 

It was just the most incredible summer and a total game changer. Just set me on a totally different course. I'd never really thought about the fact that I could make a career in music and in something I loved until I got that job basically. So that set everything going.

Lydia Laws

 

LLaws_credit Eleanor Weitzer_03.jpg

Our 83rd episode is with Lydia Laws.

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Theme: Turning a passion into a viable career.

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We talk about: 

🎧 How she never thought she could get a career in music and doing something she loved.

🎧 Her non-profit involvement to remove single use plastic from the music industry by 2025.

🎧 And how being a trained marine mammal paramedic isn’t a chat up line.

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Bio

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Lydia Laws (LLPR, Bye Bye Plastic, LIFTING THE LYD) is the founder and director of Lydia Laws PR, an international boutique PR and communications agency specialising in electronic music. With seven years’ experience in the music industry, she offers artists, labels, events and brands an elite personalised service pitching to worldwide print, online and broadcast media, and has spoken on several panels e.g. at ADE, DJ Growth Conference and Electronic Sound Summit sharing her experience and expertise. 

 

A passionate environmental advocate, Lydia is a founding member of BLOND:ISH’s world-known Bye Bye Plastic foundation, handling the brand’s communications and partnerships. 

 

She’s also founder/host of podcast LIFTING THE LYD, where she lifts the lid on creative, inspiring achievers who follow their passions, from DJs, authors, sports figures, scientists, eco warriors, business entrepreneurs and beyond.

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James:

Great. Well, thank you for joining us, Lydia. How are you this fine day?

 

Lydia:

Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm really good. Thank you. The sun is shining, I've been for swimming in the sea this morning, feeling ready to go for the day. All good. How are you guys?

 

James:

Oh good, we'll have to try that.

 

Lydia:

You should one hundred percent start the day with a swim in the sea, it's the best. It's the best thing.

 

James:

It's got me wondering now. If we go to my first question, when you were a little girl, did you know what you wanted to be when you grew up?

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Lydia:

I always had a pretty clear vision of what I want it to be, and it wasn't always highly realistic. When I was really little, I wanted to be a dancer or an actress. I was obsessed with musicals and being on the stage. That was the goal. Then obviously, you grow up a little bit and start being a bit more realistic. Although, a lot of people can do that, but I decided to take a more realistic approach and really wanted to be journalist or work in PR. At the time while I was in school, I was doing a lot of internships and worked for a lot of different newspapers and magazines and publishing houses. I was basically interning wherever I could and just getting as much experience I could.

 

So I always, wanted to work in that PR and journalism area, but never thought that it would end up being in music. I just didn't know that was a real job, in some sort of way. I think when you're at school, the career advisors have a few things to answer for, to be honest, because it's very much like: "okay, so this is what you should do. This is what you need. You should do this. You should do that." There was basically about five jobs that they pushed you to do or encouraged you to do. I think I was very lucky in the sense that I always was a really keen writer and always wanted to work in those sort of fields.

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James:

That's good to hear because most guests don't know what they want to be. However, the careers advice is a common theme. It's kind of, "Oh, don't be silly. That's not a career. You need to get a proper job." And there've been a number of guests who've been put off and have found their way back eventually to what their calling was.

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Lydia:

That's really interesting actually. I think it's one of those things where, when you're in school you have to know what you want to do. If you are academic you definitely go to university. If you aren't, then you look at easier options. Then you grow up and you meet people who have these ludicrous jobs that sound so cool and that you didn't even know existed. And you're like, "why didn't I hear about that in school when I was getting told about journalism, quantity surveying, and being a doctor?" I feel like there needs to be a new career advising course that people can take.

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James:

The careers advice is something which is progressing. We've been into a local school to actually give our perspective of if you want to work in psychology. What does it actually mean? What's the reality of the scenario? I've talked about if you're into languages. What can you do with languages? You'll be told you can be a translator or a teacher. There's a lot more that you can actually do with that. So it's providing some of that realism to say, you can pretty much go and do whatever you want and build in a language. So don't be pushed down a route of, you've got to be a translator and work in Brussels, or teach other kids how to learn a language.

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Michelle:

There are some really cool things that schools do nowadays. So you were getting lots of experience interning and going to university, no doubt.

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Lydia:

Yeah. I went to Newcastle and did English Language and Linguistics. It was one of those degrees where I basically tried to do as many things outside of the language courses as possible as well, because once you kind of get there, I really wished that I was doing some drama and more literature. I was constantly going to head of English and asking, "please let me do a different module". They would reply "okay, fine but this is the last one". I then go back the next semester and be like, "I really want to learn about Virginia Woolf" and she'd be like, "okay, fine. But this is the last time". So I was very lucky in that sense that they kept letting me move the core structures and stuff.

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Michelle:

So what happened next after graduating?

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Lydia:

It was a funny one. All the way through school, I knew I was gonna go to uni. I had a really clear idea of what I wanted. I was very much in the mindset that I want to live to work. I want to be a career woman and want that to be my life. I want to work in a big city with that dream of being in New York and walking across the Brooklyn Bridge to work every day, with my Americano and my banana bread or something. Although obviously, in New York you would probably not be eating banana bread because everyone is supposed to be skinny, but anyway, that was the sort of plan.

 

Then I did English at uni and then this same problem that quite a lot of graduates have of trying to find a job afterwards. I was applying for different marketing roles and different PR jobs and had it in my head that I was probably going to have to move to London at some point, because that's where everything is and the big businesses are even though I didn't really want to. So I was working as a waitress, just casual restaurant work and I did that for about a year while I was applying for jobs and trying to figure out what I really wanted to do. I had all this experience, but then nothing really seemed to fit. I just didn't really know and then around that time, I started getting into electronic music.

 

I had always listened to electronic music and been a really big fan of music generally, but got into the more underground house and techno sound and just became completely obsessed with it. So while I was working in the restaurant, I was then living and breathing the music and the whole music scene and industry. I was going out on my own to gigs and clubs all the time. Anytime there was a DJ in town who, whether I had heard of him or not, I was like, "I've got to go". Music became the thing that got me through that phase where I was working and just thinking: "I should be doing something with that degree", and "What am I doing?", "Where am I going?" Through a friend at the restaurant, they had told me about this internship going at a company called Ibiza Spotlight and it's basically the number one guide to Ibiza. It's been around for decades and is a ticket company and do a lot of different things. I'd already decided I wanted to do a season in Ibiza, no matter what.

 

So I booked a one way ticket to Ibiza. This was like the summer 2013, with a friend, and we were like, "yep, we're going to do it. We'll find work once we're there. It'll be fine". Then I applied for this internship and actually got it. It was a writing internship, so writing reviews of different events and interviewing DJs. It was basically a dream job for someone who is massively into their music and wants to spend the summer in Ibiza. I went to Ibiza and did that for six months and that was the total kind of game changer. I'd never set foot in Ibiza before. I was probably a little bit late to the scene in comparison to a lot of my friends because I'd just been very much an Indie Kid and it just took me a bit longer to find that sound really. It was the first time I went where I was committing to a whole summer.

 

It was just the most incredible summer and a total game changer. Just set me on a totally different course. I'd never really thought about the fact that I could make a career in music and in something I loved until I got that job basically. So that set everything going. I came back from Ibiza and spent about a month or two catching up on sleep and processing the craziness of the last few months. I was doing some writing for some local blogs and a couple of other international sites with people that had connections that I'd made that and I was just trying to decide what I wanted to do.

 

Then I found a job in a music PR company and decided to make that shift from journalism into PR. That was January 2014 and then I've just been doing music PR ever since. I set up on my own just over four years ago and set up into my own name, Lydia Laws PR and has just totally taken off. So it's been a bit of a whirlwind crazy last seven years.

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James:

So what I really like about that is that, whereas from a career advice perspective, you don't necessarily know that such a career exists, but getting into a genre of music and into the club scene, getting out to Ibiza, you then have this idea that comes along, that you can potentially make something of this and make a living doing it. That's a great way to find out what you are passionate about. What you were saying about living to work, then clicks. That's the serendipity of that and the beauty of it. We sometimes are forced into trying to come up with a career, whereas letting it unravel. Who am I, what do I enjoy? What does it look like? Boom. And eventually it just happened. That's great.

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Lydia:

A hundred percent. I think that was the other thing, the whole live to work idea, my perception on all that has changed because you find something that you obviously love doing then. I work really hard on and I spend a lot of time thinking about my business and how it's going to be booked in. There is a lot of crossover, especially in something like music between life and work. Going to an event often becomes more worky or going on holiday you always work as well. I love those connections with people and that networking and the whole scene, it's so vibrant.

 

But at the same time, it's showing me that I don't need to live to work. I don't need to be spent. Work doesn't have to be the be all and end all. You can still live a really enjoyable life and do the things you love and have that work life balance while still having a successful career. I think that's something that is a really key thing that I've learned over the last seven years.

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James:

What led you then to say I'm going to set up shop on my own?

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Lydia:

To be honest I think I could potentially be quite difficult. As a boss, I think I'm great...as an employee probably...do you know what I mean. But I was that kid in school where I got really good grades and I did pretty well but you could see it all over my face if I didn't agree with what the teacher was saying. Then I would be like: "I don't know why this teacher doesn't like me". It's because she can see all over your face how you're actually feeling about something that she's talking about. And I'm like, but I don't think I'm showing that it's all, what are you talking about? I thought it was brilliant that working for someone else was brilliant. It taught me everything I knew about music PR. If it's being thrown into the deep end and I learnt so much, but I think as that was going on, never wanted to have my own company. I always used to say when I was younger that I wanted to be part of a bigger company and work my way up and then have employee. Someone else has to deal with all the invoicing and the business stuff and chasing payments and then be accountable for this, that or the other.

 

I never thought I would want to do that and then just as the years went on, it was a couple of years being in a different company, I just started to just get that feeling of wanting to be in charge of this myself. I want to steer the ship on my own and make those decisions and even make those mistakes I have to kind of learn from. Suddenly out of nowhere, I was like I want to do this. It was actually quite a fast decision, with not really any preparation. I was really lucky because I told people that I was starting up on my own and straight away I had a lot of interest for clients. I think it's very much a word of mouth business.

 

You get a really good reputation before hand and it really helps you out if you do want to go out on your own. I had this idea that I was going to leave the other company and basically spend a month or two twiddling my thumbs and sorting my database out. I was doing admin and then within the first month I had a roster of clients. It's just been really hectic ever since, and I obviously loved it. I think it's the best business decision I've ever made a hundred percent.

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Michelle:

You don't just do one business or one campaign, you've got lots of different bits and pieces going on as well, haven't you?

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Lydia:

Yeah. What's so good about the PR is that you can be involved in so many different things at once and it's freelancing as well. It makes all the difference to that freedom and diversity in the projects you're working on. As well as doing PR for house and techno DJs, producers and music labels, events, festivals, that sort of thing. I'm also working for a foundation called Bye Bye Plastic, which was actually set up by one of my DJ clients, Blondish. And it's basically a nonprofit to remove single use plastic from the music industry by 2025. I've been involved in that since right at the beginning a couple of years ago when it was just a beach clean up. It then was building and we needed to think of a name for it so let's just call it Bye Bye Plastic for now we'll work something out.

 

Then suddenly we're just gonna have to go with that as a name and why not, it's pretty cool. So let's just do it. And now, it's being featured on Victoria Derbyshire show on BBC and they flew over to film with Blondish. We did a big feature about Ibiza and the islands and the plastic problem. It's been on BBC news, it's been picked up by the Grammy's, loads of really, really influential news pieces on it. I really loved that. The sustainability angle is something that I'm really passionate about as a big animal lover and a big fan of the sea and swimming, surfing, and traveling and everything. I think we all need to take some responsibility for the planet and what we're doing and get involved in some way to help. That's a big part of what I do. That, in itself, is it's a really rewarding project. We just had a massive festival at the weekend on Twitch, which raised a lot of money for the foundation.

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James:

One thing I read as well is that you're a trained Marine mammal paramedic, which sounds like a line that you hear in a club and you get to meet someone and ask, what do you do? Trained Marine mammal paramedic. And it's like, no, that's just some chat up line. Tell us more about that.

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Lydia:

Totally. I trained with BDMLR, which a British Divers Marine Life Rescue. They're an amazing charity based all over the world. They have key units in quite a lot of different coastal locations. So there's one in the Northeast of the sea. They basically get called out. Well, we get called out to rescue seals or sea life mammals, whales, porpoises, when they either get washed up or something's happened or they're entangled and we basically get called out to go rescue them. Then if they need medical care, then they get taken to a vet and then they also get taken to the Blue Reef Aquarium down in Tynemouth. There is a seal rehab unit there. I'm not involved in the rehab unit, but the guys there are doing an amazing job. So much effort goes in as well for one seal.

 

One of the seals that I rescued was really badly entangled, so we got this call and I went out and because I lived so close to the site to the coast, I was the first one on the scene. The tide was coming in really quick and it was on St. Mary's Lighthouse on the Island and it just had this massive load of fishing net around its neck, completely choking it, but it kept swimming almost back into the sea. They're quite vicious, if they think that you are attacking them, they're going to bite you. And the bite is like a dog bite. I was trying to get him to come up on to the rocks while the tide's coming in really fast, while I was trying not to get swept out to sea, and also not get bitten.

 

So there's me with a towel, trying help and the weather was crazy. It was like some sort of scene out of one of those TV shows, you know? Like rescue in the wild or something like that. Then a couple of other guys arrived and we managed to catch him. You have to like jump on the seal. So basically someone is doing a little dance at the front with the seal and then the other person jumps on the seal from behind with a towel and gets the towel around the mouth so that it can't bite you. You have to clearly be trained to do this. Then you check the seal, check for any injuries, check their eyes, are they dehydrated, check if it has any problems. So obviously with this one, we had to cut all the netting off, which took a good 10 minutes or so as it was really tight. And to be honest, I thought it was going to be quite an upsetting situation.

 

But once we got the netting off, it seemed that it had happened quite recently and hadn't actually cut through the skin yet, but that seal literally could have died within about 24 hours because it wouldn't have been able to feed itself. It would have been exhausted. Wouldn't be able to catch anything, wouldn't be able to breath properly. It's crazy because that's a totally healthy, fine animal that has swum into that and had such a traumatic experience and there's just no need for that to happen. Why is a massive chunk of fishing net lying around in the ocean? Do you know what I mean?

 

That was a really happy story and we could let him go back into the wild, which is just the lushest thing to see. If there is an injury then there's some really great vets that are there and we help them. And then it goes to seal rehab. And then a very nice moment is when they release the seal back into the ocean after a few weeks or even months sometimes. It can be months rehabing just one seal and it's just so nice to see people putting so much care into one animal. I think it's really heart warming.

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James:

It's a lovely story.

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Michelle:

I can imagine the seal would be raging though.

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Lydia:

It's the same with any animal. You wish you could say to them: I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help you, but they can get very aggressive if they think that you're attacking them, which they basically will think if you're jumping on them from behind with a towel.

 

Michelle:

We should try it!

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Lydia:

Yeah, you should. They're on Facebook as British Divers Marine Life Rescue and they're really cool. There's a recent video where they did a Facebook live showing them releasing the seals. Cause obviously at the moment they can't encourage people to come down the beach to see it. They also get called up for whales and stuff. And then there's teams all around the world who are a special entanglement team who basically if they hear about a humpback or something entangled, they'll go out on a boat and try and find it and catch it and cut it off, which is quite dangerous work because you're essentially attaching yourself to a massive whale that could just die any moment. Yeah. I would love to do something like that, but I would also probably be a bit too scared. I'll let other people do that one.

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Michelle:

Awesome. So how is everything with the coronavirus and not being able to go to gigs and festivals? How is that impacting on your clients and the music industry?

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Lydia:

In general, I think it has been tough. It's been a very turbulent time for obviously every industry. I think it has shown a bit of an area, in the music industry, that could be worked on. The fact that all these gigs are basically what generates the income for so many people. In this house and techno world, music isn't really where money is made. The releases aren't where the money's made. It's not really the same as like a pop artist or a pop singer might release an album and that's where they're making their money. And then they go on tour and that's to then promote the record. It doesn't work in the same way. So you suddenly cancel the gigs and suddenly the income is gone.

 

I think it's a really scary time for a lot of people, but it's also a really good time to be thinking where can I make money? What are the other opportunities? I think some artists especially are really pushing themselves out of their comfort zone and thinking, "okay, how can I actually change this model?" It will be really helpful for the future because it's such a fast paced industry. There's so many new talents coming up all the time. There's so many releases every week. It's one of those markets where you don't know how long you are going to be fashionable for. You don't know how long you're going to have, you have to keep growing. You don't know how long you're gonna be building your fan base for or how long your career is going to last.

 

So I think people could take from this so many positive lessons. When I do want to start slowing down my tour schedule, whether it's because I'm having a family or because I'm just getting a bit older. How can I actually carry on earning the same amount? What could I be doing? What areas could I be exploring? I think that filters down to people like me, I have seen this time as: Right, I could sit back and wait for things to pick up or I could try and use this as a time to think of what else could I do? What else do I want to do? Gigs could take so long to come back. Some events are starting to happen now, but then the clubs aren't opening it could be for this year. So that's going to have a massive effect.

 

I'm just getting involved in as many other things as I can. I'm in the process of starting a side business with a couple of other women in the industry, which is going to be a PR marketing company, but with a bit of a difference in doing different events and stuff that's not totally within the music world. And then it's got me doing coaching and consultancy work, which I really wanted to do for ages, but just kept putting off. I'm just trying to see it as if I put the hard work in now and think outside the box then it will pay off once things do go back to normal. So trying to stay positive and it feels quite liberating because I'm pushing myself out of my comfort zone and also taking on projects I might not normally have had a chance to take on. It's expanding my horizons quite a bit.

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Michelle:

And that working with other people in that collaborating piece, it can be quite lonely and isolating being an entrepreneur on your own and being able to work with different people with different complimenting skill sets and same values is always going to be fun, isn't it?

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Lydia:

Yeah. I think I'm very lucky in my job anyway, there's quite a lot of really brilliant female publicists. We all have a bit of a network between ourselves as well, which we use for support or advice or to help each other out here and there. That makes a massive difference as well. I really like the collaborating with others who might have different skill sets and stuff. I think it's really cool. Actually, there's enough space for everybody, it's just finding your strengths and working together with someone else's strengths and that can really create something really special.

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Michelle:

Oh yes. We completely agree with that. It's funny how we had that conversation about Be More Pirate book and you pretty much nailed it all in what you're doing. I'd love to hear your feedback. You're almost working through the processes to be more pirate without even knowing that there is a process. You were already a pirate! I'm trying to say really badly, so well done.

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Lydia:

Amazing. That's great. I always liked being a pirate, I think I would really suit the uniform to be fair. I think it's just so becoming. I just think it would really work well.

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James:

So tell us as well, because of course you're a very busy person and why not have something else on the go, tell us about Lifting The Lyd podcast?

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Lydia:

So I started a podcast - Lifting The Lyd - this year. After once again being one of the things I was like, "I really want to start a podcast," for months. Finally, actually did it. It's basically just me chatting with different inspirational people from different walks of life, like sports stars, writers, playwrights, authors, musicians, DJs, and then like business entrepreneurs and also people within sustainability fields.

 

The first one was with one of the guys from British Divers Marine Life Rescue. It's basically just me talking with really interesting people about their lives and just hoping that that can also inspire other people to follow what they want to do. So yeah, it's on, you can go to anchor.fm/liftingthelyd - "LYD", obviously can't resist a pun, or it's on Spotify and Apple and everything as well.

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Michelle:

We'll put the links in the show notes. Sounds really interesting. We've had a little listen, so yes, it's really good. So now is the quick fire round of questions. So I'll ask question number one. So question number one is what is your favourite animal?

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Lydia:

Oh my God. That's so hard, there are so many. I know I'm going to say something and I'm going to forget like a really cool animal. I'm going to go with my favourite UK animal. I'm going to go hedgehog. I love hedgehogs so much. They are the cutest things. I just love them.

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James:

Oh, good choice. Yeah.

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Michelle:

Mine's wombats, which is pretty much Australian hedgehogs, I suppose. Isn't it?

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Lydia:

Ah, yeah. That is a great shout. I spent loads of time in Australia because my brother is living over there and literally I'm thinking of all the different animals. Maybe an echidna, which is also like a hedgehog.

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James:

Question number two, you are hired to show tourists what life is like in the Northeast of England, what would you show them?

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Lydia:

Oh my God. I literally feel like I'm a tour guide in the Northeast because I'm always pushing it to everybody and being like, you've got to come. Here's pictures of the beach. Where would I take them? I'd take them to go swimming in the sea - Cullercoats Bay, first thing. We'd get out in time for Cullercoats Coffee to open, where we would get a great oat milk latte then we'd probably walk all the way along the coast past Longsands. See if it was surfable and maybe have surf lesson and then stop off for fish and chips at Laura's fish bar for lunch. Then probably have some cakes somewhere. I'm basically obsessed with Cullercoats and Tynemouth in case it wasn't clear. Then probably end up really full and sleepy by the afternoon and then go to Ouseburn for drinks and stuff.

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Michelle:

It sounds like the perfect day!

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James:

We'll sign up!

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Michelle:

I've always wanted to do those sunrise kayaks.

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Lydia:

You should do it. Or paddle boarding or something. Yeah.

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Michelle:

If you could pick up one instrument and instantly become a virtuoso at it, what would you choose?

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Lydia:

I'm going to say piano. I already play piano, but I would love to be able to play piano to insane levels. That would definitely be my choice.

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James:

For someone to just like throw a tune at you. Yeah.

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Lydia:

I just realised people can't see me doing the finger movement!

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Michelle:

We could take it out and make it a GIF!

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James:

So we pull up outside and in the DeLorean, we can take you back to 18 year old Lydia, what advice would you give to her?

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Lydia:

Great question. I think some of the key advice would be that the choices that you make 18, don't have to define the rest of your life and the rest of your career. I think I would just say, make choices for what you want to do now. And don't worry about the future so much because it's never too late to reinvent yourself and change what you want to do. I think when you're younger, you think, Oh my God, I'm going to be doing this. And I'm going to have a family and a house, and in addition to that I'm going to have to know what career I want.

 

And then you get a bit older and you're like, okay, I still feel like in my early twenties and nothing feels any different and actually you've got the rest of your life to still do whatever you want. I think that would be a really key bit of advice. Just do what you feel you want to do at the time and don't think too much about the future. And another one is to not compare yourself to other people, something I think we all probably still struggle with, or a lot of people do. I still do. Yeah. It's hard. And the whole imposter syndrome thing.

 

But I think I'm a lot better at it now. I think when you're younger, it literally is like, how well they are doing. And look at what they're doing, like they're better than me at this. And I just think it just takes you to a negative place you don't need to be in because we all have our strengths. We all are individually excellent.

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James:

We all have our own strengths. There's lots of quotes in there. Michelle often reminds me of the quote of "comparison is the thief of joy."

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Lydia:

Oh yeah. That's a really good one. A hundred percent.

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James:

I'm going to butcher it, but I think it's an Albert Einstein one. It's about judging a fish by its ability to climb a tree.

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Lydia:

Yeah, that's a good one actually.

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James:

Then it's never going to succeed in life. I'm totally misquoting that one. But it's if you try and be...

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Lydia:

The thought is there.

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Michelle:

The difficulty is because brains evolved to stay in the tribe, don't be different, don't stick your head out of the cave because if you're on your own you're not necessarily going to survive. So we're fighting against evolution here and how our brains developed to be really conscious of needing to fit in. So I said, actually, this morning, you and me baby ain't nothing but mammals. We think we're so bright and brilliant because we invented cars and airplanes and stuff, but our biology is still our biology.

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Lydia:

I would also say to myself on a slightly different note, give myself the advice to not spend all my money on clothes that I will never wear and save that money towards a house deposit or something. When you're younger and people tell you to save money and you're like, "nah, nah, I really want this dress." I really want this. And then it's like, "Oh no, actually you do have to actually pay back that university loan." Probably would have been better not to spend it all on clothes, but you know, you live and you learn.

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Michelle:

So some practical advice so thank you.

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Lydia:

For anyone listening who is around the age where it matters, stop buying clothes you will never wear.

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Michelle:

So if somebody had a listen to this podcast and thinks the cut of your jib as it were, what is the best way of getting in touch?

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Lydia:

All the details about me and my business, and my podcast and everything are on my website, which is www.LydiaLawsPR.com. I'm also on Instagram, @LydiaEnglishRose. You can listen to the podcast Lifting the Lyd on all popular key platforms for podcasts. And you can probably find me down in the sea, on the beach, either getting battered by my surf board or screaming about how cold the sea is if you want to come see me in person.

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Michelle:

Cool. And I just want to say a little thank you to my former schoolmate Gillian Dando for introducing us.

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Lydia:

Yeah. Thanks Gill!

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Michelle:

In my head she is Gillian as she is still 14 but yes. She's a proper adult, grown up now.

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Lydia:

Bless her. Through swimming and surfing yes. Although I've never actually been surfing with her. That's how we connected.

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Michelle:

Brilliant. Well, thank you ever so much for your time today.

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James:

I've enjoyed it.

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Lydia:

Thanks for having me. It's been so nice.